Moving the Needle

FELECIA HATCHER: No one cares anymore, unfortunately,

about the need. Everyone wants to be a part of

the opportunity. And it's a small shift for our

entrepreneurs, but I think it allows them to value

what they're doing much bigger. And then more

than anything, it also allows investors and strategic

partners to also see the role that they can play

in building upon that opportunity. And it's just

really helping our entrepreneurs tell the story

from a sense of love of themselves, of their communities,

and ultimately the impact that they're trying

to have with what they're building.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: Welcome to Season 2 of Moving

the Needle. A podcast exploring how social innovators

and problem solvers are doing critical work in

cities and rural communities to create new pathways

to generational wealth. They are creating on-the-ground

conditions to transform underestimated human assets

into sources of American global competitive advantage.

This is Johnathan Holifield.

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: And I'm Christopher Gergen.

As your co-host, we're here to lift up solutions

that are giving us hope and can light the way

for policymakers. Community leaders, philanthropists,

private investors. And engage citizens who care

about equity and economic impact.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: On today's show, we talk to

Felecia Hatcher, CEO of Pharrell Williams' Black

Ambition Opportunity Fund. Felecia began her entrepreneurial

journey by founding and exiting Feverish Ice Cream,

then co-founding the Black Tech Week Conference

and the Center for Black Innovation. She grew

up in a family of entrepreneurs who taught her

the importance of relationships and perseverance.

FELECIA HATCHER: I just knew that my parents and

my grandparents worked really hard, sacrificed

a lot, came home dirty every single day, but it

was never framed as this thing that was like a

wealth generating like tool and vehicle. And like

there was legacy and a pathway that like, it was

just never framed that way as a kid. And so that

kind of coupled with being a C student and then

having a guidance counselor tell me I'd never

make it to a college or university because of

my grades and just kind of setting out to prove

this woman wrong. I ended up winning $130,000

in scholarships and grants as a C student, but

more so it taught me that there's more than one

pathway to success. And that has kind of fueled

any and everything that I've ever done.

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: Felecia specifically talked

to us about the need to invest in talent pipelines

and engage diverse voices in fostering strong

innovation ecosystems, as well as the need to

build trust and social capital among underconnected

communities. As you will hear, Felecia also explained

to us the role of local government in the development

of Miami's startup ecosystem and the importance

of harnessing the entrepreneurial talent emerging

from our nation's HBCUs.

FELECIA HATCHER: We invest between $25K to $1

million in about 35 companies a year. But we mentor

in a three-month cohort-style mentorship program

about 250 founders a year. And then culture, right?

And so Black Ambition serves as a place where

oftentimes we're the first money in. But then

on the other standpoint, none of these businesses

have to explain the value of their culture in

order to seek revenue or funding from us, which

is oftentimes very rare in this space. They're

either explaining it in a way or trying to double

down on how important it is for this company or

that market or the customer base to be valued.

And then the last part is care. And we really

approach entrepreneurship from a more of a holistic

standpoint, which is a model that we hope that

other entrepreneurial-serving organizations really

kind of take and run with, because I truly feel

coming out of the pandemic, and none of us look

like what we've been through in those past years,

that we are on the brink of a public health crisis

as it relates to entrepreneurship. Suicide rates

were already high prior to the pandemic. But when

you think about those stats that said, I believe

it was either 40% or 60% of Black businesses closed

during the pandemic, and they will not reopen,

my heart goes out to the person who cashed in

on their 401(k), bet their house, finally revved

themselves up to start that business only for

literally all the worst-case scenarios to happen.

But there's a flip side of that, right? The 40%

of businesses that close that will not reopen.

But 60% of Black businesses survived. And we don't

talk about that enough, that they were equipped

to literally navigate and handle one of the worst

economic downturns in our lifetime, right? And

so there is that part that I think is equally

important. And so wrapping around all the support

that they need in order to grow and scale, and

then also be building upon a legacy that gets

them to wealth, or at least on the pathway to

wealth is the work that we do through a national

prize process.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: You all at Black Ambition

are a force multiplier. Doing a little bit of

digging around you guys. Almost 10 million invested

from Black Ambition. 90 plus million that the

founders have subsequently raised. So that's a

nine to one multiplier. Those are really venture

returns on that early stage investment. If you

put it in that context.

FELECIA HATCHER: And then, you know, for every

entrepreneur that we invest in, they're averaging

four new employees as well, right? And so, you

know, I can go on and on about the things that

have happened as a result of our investment into

these entrepreneurs. But it's really two things

that kind of keep me up at night. What if we didn't

exist is one thing. And then two, when we look

at our entrepreneurs, and especially the fact

that we're oftentimes first money in, why is the

space that we're in ignoring these entrepreneurs?

They've shown that they can produce. Our million-dollar

prize winner, Logistics, is based out of Detroit.

You know, we invested a million dollars in them.

They've gone on to raise 7 million. They went

from four employees to 34 employees within a year.

They have no plans of ever moving to Silicon Valley.

They plan to grow and continue to scale in Detroit.

But they're also third-generation entrepreneurs

in the construction space, right? His grandfather

started his company, and then his father continued

it. He worked in it for a little bit and was just

like, there has to be a better way in which technology

can create more efficiencies in this space for

my family, but then also nationwide as an industry

as a whole. That is what you want to happen when

we're talking about legacy creation. And then

these entrepreneurs also being very good stewards

of the capital, they just need that catapult.

They need the fact that people really start paying

attention when they see Pharrell's on their cap

table. Like, these are the things that start happening

for these entrepreneurs really fast. But wealth

has a need for speed. And so not only do we need

to deploy capital faster, we really need to push

the industry and ecosystems to also be deploying

capital and resources to these entrepreneurs much

faster as well.

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: You know, one of the things,

Felecia, that we haven't really touched on in

terms of your background, but feels very applicable

in this case. And Johnathan just talked about

this idea of being a force multiplier. But one

of the other things I feel... That you're doing

a nice job of is the amplification and the importance

of storytelling. In experiential marketing. And

so, As you're speaking to these entrepreneurs

that are... You know, within the cohorts that

you all are supporting or mentorship. And you

mentioned it in terms of one of your seeds, right?

Communication and being able to really think about

how to tell your story. How do you think about

that? How do you go about good storytelling? Why

do you think it's important? And how do you think

that entrepreneurs should be prioritizing? Their

own story. As they're going through this and how

do they help to amplify it?

FELECIA HATCHER: Yeah, I don't know if you can

build a company and grow it and scale it these

days without prioritizing storytelling in as many

facets and ways as possible. Right. And so there's

the story, but then there's actually the channels

in which you communicate that and the value. Like

at the end of the day, people only make buying

decisions because they understand the value that

it has for them as an individual, as a fund, as

a corporation, as a like whatever. And so we spend

a lot of time helping them refine their stories,

not just for pitching on stage at demo day, but

like, how do you also communicate that story when

it's just a one-to-one meeting and you got to

carry that conversation, that interest and communicate

that value over a coffee, over a dinner, over

a glass of wine. And so it's a lot of what we

teach them in the program, but then it's a lot

of what we do. We launched a So Ambitious podcast.

We have the Decode Encoded series. We're really

heavy in content creation and sharing the story

of not just our founder, but the 101 entrepreneurs

that we've invested in. But I would say the last

thing I think that really brings the importance

of it home is Arlan Hamilton did like a live sometime

earlier this year when she said, like, if you

don't have the money, you have to become the money.

And when she said that, I was like, oh my gosh,

it's so interesting. She went in a different direction

than I thought she was, but it was still like

really good. But what I got out of that was like,

if you don't have the money, you have to become

the money, meaning that you have to become leverage

and also the vessel. And things don't happen in

this space, in this industry or the solution unless

it flows through you. That is how you build the

value in which people then understand that they

need to invest in this and get on this train or

they're going to miss out. And so a lot of what

we do is helping our entrepreneurs tell more of

an asset-based story around what they're doing

and the value in the marketplace, in the global

marketplace, as opposed to like this need-based

thing. No one cares anymore, unfortunately, about

the need. Everyone wants to be a part of the opportunity.

And it's a small shift for our entrepreneurs,

but I think it allows them to value what they're

doing much bigger. And then more than anything,

it also allows investors and strategic partners

to also see the role that they can play in building

upon that opportunity. And it's just really helping

our entrepreneurs tell the story from a sense

of love of themselves, of their communities, and

ultimately the impact that they're trying to have

with what they're building.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: That's fantastic. Moving the

entrepreneur into their environment, the conditions

creating role around local or regional ecosystems.

In this work over the course of my career, I have

struggled mightily with the notion that. Comes

to underestimated, underserved entrepreneurs,

or frankly, anything. We think. And that's really

as much the funder, government, philanthropic,

corporate, that programs alone. Will create conditions.

We rarely, rarely get to the ecosystem, systemic

development, the cultivation of conditions. Almost

like they're forcing you to count the number of

people served versus the conditions that are created

to allow. Motivated entrepreneurs to succeed and

excel. I've observed there's a real material difference

between regional innovation ecosystems. In those

in underserved communities. How do you react to

that?

FELECIA HATCHER: I'm laughing because I hear it

all the time. Right. And I think. You know, even

just like ecosystem building as a whole, you know,

when Derek and I first started out, that wasn't

a role that people had. People didn't fully understand

it. I think even now there's still a lack of sheer

respect around those that play that role and how

important it is. And I always tell people, well,

imagine if none of it existed, like where would

we be? And that's how you fully start to understand

it. I think because it seems so social and it's

a happy hour sometimes, it's a hackathon sometimes,

it's a convening that exists. Well, how does this

actually equate to X, Y, and Z? Well, it also

requires a level of patience. And no one likes

to talk about the P word in ecosystem building.

And I get it because we are up against really

troubling times and things need to happen really

fast. But again, I live in Miami, so I'm going

to always use that as an example. You know, during

the pandemic, when literally everybody from Silicon

Valley in New York started to move to Miami and

said that the role that they were going to play

in building out this ecosystem, what immediately

started happening once, you know, once the sunshine

went away and there was a few raindrops, was it

like, it doesn't have the talent here. This is

never going to be Silicon Valley. I'm like, yeah,

it's never going to be Silicon Valley.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: It's not the goal.

FELECIA HATCHER: Well, you're comparing a 10-year-old

concentrated effort to a 50, maybe even 60-year-old

concentrated effort of the Bay Area. Also, the

Bay Area became the Bay Area in the sense of Silicon

Valley from federal government contracts. Solving

military technology, creating military technology

solutions first. And so in the absence of that

level of government funding and resources, you

can never compare any other city that doesn't

have that same amount of infusion of real capital

coming in from the government. You can't compare

those two things. And so when you talk about talent,

you got to have a level of patience. You just

have to, right? It will mature to the level where

it outputs the talent that you need at some point.

You cannot snap your fingers and make that happen.

And then the other part is local government plays

a mass, local corporations. But local government

also plays a massive role. And South Florida's

startup ecosystem was not fueled and funded by

its local government in the very beginning. You

had a local philanthropic partner that played

the role that government should have played, which

was Knight Foundation.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: Knight Foundation, yeah.

FELECIA HATCHER: They supplied a large level of

what I kind of experiential failure capital. They

probably hate that I say it that way. But it was

a lot of opportunity to throw things up against

the wall and actually see what sticks and turns

into something. And I think, Johnathan, what you're

talking about is some of that, right? Often, you

do not have the luxury to be able to do so. That

one program better work and it better solve all

of our societal problems. Otherwise, we're throwing

it all away and we're going in a completely different

direction. I think a lot of what you now see in

Miami over the past 10 years is philanthropic

efforts playing that role. And I think in other

major cities, you saw the opposite. Government

fueled that in a way. And then philanthropic and

corporations followed behind that. In Miami, it

was the opposite. And I'll say one thing, kind

of going back to something you said earlier, Chris,

on the workforce side. If our government would

have played the role in the very beginning, we

wouldn't see the large number from an IT standpoint

of workforce needs in our local government. Because

I think they said about 33% are actually retiring

in the next few years. And so we have a government

workforce technology issue that exists because

of the role that they decided to not play in the

development of the startup ecosystem here. But

when you see all of those three things come together,

like we saw in the last two years, things start

happening really, really fast.

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: Yeah, so I want to connect

a bunch of dots. I love this conversation, and

then we're going to have to wrap here shortly.

But one of the things that we've said on a number

of different occasions, which is one of our favorite

things, is that a lot of communities tend to be

program-rich, but systems-poor. And it goes right

to your point about being able to invest in a

specific program, and if the program doesn't work,

you can move on to the next program. But at the

end of the day, your work has really been focused

on this idea of stitching together systems, healthy

ecosystems. In South Florida, we first connected

through Forward Cities. That's been our work,

really thinking about ways we can create more

and foster more inclusive entrepreneurial ecosystems

across the country that you've been involved in.

And so I'm curious about that. I'm curious also,

one of the things that was really neat to see

within the context of Black Ambition, to connect

another dot in terms of a thread that we've been

pulling, is the role of HBCUs in communities to

be able to strengthen the overall ecosystem. You

all have within Black Ambition, the HBCU Prize,

to be able to think about ways to engage HBCUs

in that work. So if you could help, just, illuminate

just a little bit the kind of work you're doing

with HBCUs, how it connects to some of the systems

change work, and where you see that going.

FELECIA HATCHER: Yeah, yeah. You know, our founder,

Pharrell, always preaches to the mountaintop that

HBCUs are some of the most fertile grounds for

entrepreneurship, innovation and ideas. And I

wholeheartedly believe that as well. I didn't

go to an HBCU, but I married a guy who went to

the HBCU. So I take that as a little bit of a

win. And so there's three big areas with Black

Ambition in which we focus our work on HBCUs.

One, like an actual prize vertical specifically

for HBCU students and those that are like five,

up to three to five years post undergrad at an

HBCU. We have an HBCU, an accelerator that actually

helps those entrepreneurs up to 100 a year we

work with to get essentially application ready,

not just for the primarily for the Black Ambition

Prize, but for any accelerator or incubator that

they also consider applying to. So many of our

entrepreneurs at HBCUs get lost in that cycle

of the process and never actually get to the support

that they need because they have problems filling

out the application and gathering the things that

they need in order to do so. And then the last

big initiative that we have around HBCUs is an

actual HBCU tour. And so we take Techstars as

well as the Thurgood Marshall Foundation, all

three of us go to about eight to 10 campuses every

single year. We're getting ready to launch the

second year of that in the next few months and

spend three days in like a Startup Weekend style

programming specifically to support those entrepreneurs.

But with also the primary reason is putting some

funding into three entrepreneurs or three startups

that win at the end of that three day weekend.

And so trying to get some of those ideas as some

capital that's frictionless, but going through

getting them trained and ready as much as possible.

And so there's 101 HBCUs that all need a lot of

support. And what we found in our research of

even identifying the schools that we were going

to work with with the tour is about 90% of those

schools either do not have an entrepreneurship

concentration or no entrepreneurship center. And

so programs like ours, when we invest in those

entrepreneurs and then they go back to their campuses

talking about ecosystems, they do not have the

ecosystem to continue to support them on their

entrepreneurial journey. And we'll end up doing

more harm than good if you're not aligning them

with the resources directly in their city to keep

that journey going. And so that's something that

we saw from the first year of the prize. That

is the reason why we launched the incubator and

the accelerator to make sure that they still have

an entrepreneurial community of some sort, even

if it's not locally in their city, to allow them

to continue to get all the support that they need

to grow and scale their business.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: Felecia, in that space, one

of the challenges that I've observed in my career

is with entrepreneurship programs focused on youth.

And at my age, I can consider HBCU students youth.

Perhaps, perhaps more. Certainly as much as it

is for business formation, it's inculcating an

ethic of entrepreneurship that will serve them

well once they graduate, have a career. And then

when you look at research, most successful growth

company entrepreneurs are like 42 years old when

they start their business. But you building that

ethic of entrepreneurship that we we sorely need.

Does that align with what you've learned as well?

FELECIA HATCHER: It does. It's twofold, right?

Like we know that. And just from our, our, our

experience studies that not all HBCU entrepreneurs

that we deploy capital into are going to continue

their business. But if they are more entrepreneurial

in their thinking and how they enter the corporate

environment, we also consider that a massive win.

The reality is they're just a lot of them are

in families and as well as areas and cities in

which they have to be innovative in which their

work environment of how they create a job for

themselves and for others. Or just being able

to be able to just be thinking about stopgap.

Between a job or the environment where we're in

and they're not being able to get employment,

they can still be able to be self-sufficient because

they know how to really kind of take care of themselves

and their family. Those are all wins for us at

the end of the day because they're using their

brains, they're using their resources to think

entrepreneurial to solve an immediate need for

themselves or an immediate need for their communities.

And so we see it on both sides and both sides

are considered a win for us.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: Absolutely.

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: So Felecia, as we get ready

to wrap up, I'm curious if you can just share

a handful of words about where you see a lot of

this going for yourself and Black Ambition. And

how do you see this playing out over the course

of the next? Few years.

FELECIA HATCHER: A lot, right? And so we're talking

about HBCUs and so growing our impact and our

support and our dollars towards HBCU students.

We've seen some amazing returns for the entrepreneurs

that we've currently invested in. We're at 101

entrepreneurs. Being able to get close to doubling

that number in the next few years would also be

a win. It'd be a significant growth in so many

different areas. And then I would say at the end

of the day, I, you know, I'm... Stand at this

intersection of diversity and inclusion, venture

space, entertainment. And it becomes exhausting

continuing in 2023 going into 2024 to still have

to explain the value that Black and Hispanic entrepreneurs

bring to communities and the marketplace. It's

exhausting to continue to say the same thing over

and over again when we have the proof cases that

exist, not just our organization, but so many

other organizations that are like us. And so being

able to just get to this point where we don't

longer have to explain that and we can just really

talk about the value in the marketplace and the

innovation that has historically been created

in these communities is where I want to get. And

so I think as much as we're excited about AI,

you know, artificial intelligence, we also got

to be excited about ancestral intelligence that

has always existed in these communities. And so

that would make me happy.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: Very good. Well, as we wrap

up, Felecia, we so appreciate you being here and

sharing what we think is a fantastic conversation

that will be illuminating for all of our listeners

and more. Close on two questions for you. More

lighthearted questions. One, what are you reading

that you would recommend? And second... What do

you listen to that really picks you up during

the day?

FELECIA HATCHER: What do I listen to? I'm listening

to Andre 3000's like flute album right now. It's

really good.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: All right.

FELECIA HATCHER: Not what the world wanted, but

it's what we all do. And Jill Scott and Philadelphia.

Like those are my three that are in conversation.

What am I reading right now? Hidden Genius is

a book I'm reading as well as... I always have

Big Leap on constant rotation. And so those two,

and The Color of Money is something that I just

recently picked up as like my Christmas read,

Get Me Through the Holidays.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: Very good. Very good. Christopher,

you want to take us home?

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: Felicia, again, I think it

has been an awesome conversation, as Johnathan

suggested. It's great to reconnect on this conversation

to also just get an update on where things are

and just really get into the background of where

you came from, what's informed the work you're

doing, and the kind of important impact you're

having today. So just really appreciate you taking

some time right now and looking forward to continuing

this conversation as we all collectively look

at ways to be able to... Move from, I love the

idea of artificial intelligence to ancestral intelligence

and looking at ways that hopefully we just shift

this conversation that we're no longer having

to explain. And so, thank you. Really appreciate

it.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: And shout out to Derek as

well. You know, I can't go past him. He's my guy,

you know, to give me my very best.

FELECIA HATCHER: I will. I definitely will. Thank

you so much.

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: Thank you, Felecia. Yeah,

I appreciate you.

FELECIA HATCHER: Bye, guys.

JOHNATHAN HOLIFIELD: Thanks so much for listening

to Moving the Needle. If what you heard resonates

with your mission, do something about it. Leaving

a rating interview and sharing our show with your

network is definitely appreciated. But what we

really want is for you to get involved. And find

a way to move the needle. In your life. And your

community.

CHRISTOPHER GERGEN: Moving the Needle is hosted

by me, Johnathan Holifield, and Christopher Gergen.

Editing and production by EarFluence, music from

Bart Matthews, and cover art from Devin Lewis

Designs. We hope each episode introduces you to

leading-edge changemakers, informs you about what's

possible, and inspires you to action. So, let's

get out there and do some needle-moving sh**.